Audible alarms were popular in 1989 — Robert Burns

So audible alarms are not new like some people in this thread assert. I remember installing one on my first installation in 1992. They have changed quite a bit since then. The newest generation is vastly superior to the initial designs.

I've found the best information often comes from other professionals and not the CE courses. — Robert Burns

(This comment is directed more at the group than Robert specifically as I do not know him and am unfamiliar with his level of engagement of AARST at either the local or national level.)

I have heard this sentiment expressed many times over the years. On one hand, I agree that case studies, expert panels and problem-solving demonstrations are typically move valuable than reviewing the installation standards for 8 hours straight. The group also benefits more from the open discourse. On the other hand, I always try to ask, "what CE classes are you going to that are not taught by professionals?" Their answer is typically that professionals teach the class, but the topics are not relevant or interesting. If you feel this way, you should open a dialogue about what you want to see in a CE course with wherever you are receiving your CE. Or, better yet, volunteer to speak at the next CE event about a topic for which you believe you are an expert. I imagine you have amassed enough wisdom over your 31-year career in radon to speak authoritatively on a wide range of topics.
Most people gain a new insight on what it takes to produce a high-quality CE class when they are standing in front of the group and not in the audience. I was really nervous the first time I had to stand in front of my peers and lead a class. My slides, my outline, pictures of my work. All kinds of crazy thoughts went through my head: Do my pictures show quality work…Did I install the system correctly…Am I really an expert in this…will I get laughed at if it turns out I made a mistake…Have I been doing this wrong all this time? I was worried about all that for about a minute.
I will warn you though. You may really enjoy it.

If the auto industry had oil gauges instead of low oil warning lights there would be a lot of cars with blown engines. — Bill Brodhead

Great analogy Bill!

Here is a great example — Andrew Costigan

Andrew, Do you have a picture of this installation from further back? I am confused about what is going on without seeing more of the inlet piping.

Remember that any clear or white tubing will degrade in sunlight. You need to use black tubing outdoors. The mini-helic includes black tubing with the package. — Bill Brodhead

Good Tip Bill! Couple more points of good practice:

• Connect the gauge tubing to the piping below the fan. I have seen people connect to the exhaust pipe. This is a bad idea as it will encourage moisture to get in the gauge.
• Always install the gauge above the hole in the pipe so any moisture in the tube can drain back into the system.
• Don't create a trap in the tubing. It will collect water.
• Locate the gauge as close to the pipe as possible so it can adsorb any heat radiating from the system.

There is no need for alarm or this discussion. Radon mitigators and the real world are not represented here. People are not working due to government stupidity and greed. Do not buy them! — Adam Michels

Hello Adam -
Not sure why you would take the time to write there is no need for discussion on a list serve where the entire purpose is discussion, but I will let that part fly right by. I would, however, ask who is being represented here if not real-world radon professionals? I certainly believe @Kevin M Stewart, @Randy Weestrand, @Chad Robinson, @Marcel Brascoupe, @Bill Brodhead, @Robert Mahoney, @Rich Whisler, @Carolyn Koke, @Wally Dorsey Jr, @Doug Kladder, @Bob Wood and @admin are firmly in the category of radon professionals and they are real as far as I can tell without getting into an existential discussion.
I am unsure what you mean when you assert "people are not working due to government stupidity and greed". My company is currently hiring 3 installation techs, 1 site manager and 1 project coordinator. These are not temporary jobs. They are careers with high pay and benefits. We have more work than we can handle. Most, if not all, of the radon companies I know of are hiring in a similar manner. If your company is struggling, I suggest you reexamine your sales and marketing personnel.

find out how to become involved, your inputs and help will be welcomed. — Wally Dorsey Jr

Nicely Said Wally. I would add that when you volunteer, you get the opportunity to be both involved in the process and an armchair quarterback as I have done all over this thread.

Question: Has anyone had experience with homeowner crms drifting higher or lower over the years. I would assume the radon levels are low enough that their background counts don't grow significantly but I dont know that. — Bill Brodhead

I have experienced ones that have drifted high over the years. It is tough to tell why, but I doubt it was background accumulation. I always attributed it to the low price point of the machine. @John Mallon also has a couple of good pictures with these homeowner devices with radically different measurements on the display in the same picture. Maybe he can dig them up for everyone. I have also noticed that people tend to take their personal CRM with them when they move.

Radon fan manufacturers warranty - 5 years

Active notification device /
System alarm manufacturers warranty - 1 year

What am I missing here? — Andrew Costigan

You are absolutely correct Andrew. I agree radon fan warranties are too long!

Well said Rich! — Andrew Costigan

Not so fast Andrew. I am not sure we have arrived at the celebratory part yet. I have read this entire thread several times and one conclusion is undeniable:
Alarms are doing exactly what the committee intended them to do. They are alerting the homeowner when the system is not operating as intended which is confirmed by the call to the installation company for service.

It does not seem like everyone is making the case that the alarms are defective. It seems like more of the dissent is centered around exposing a known problem by the people designing and installing these systems: the systems are ineffective year-round due to the typically expected exterior temperature during the winter. I have not read that these systems freeze over once a decade. The wording of some of these comments make it seem like it happens multiple times a winter for days at a time.
If this is a normal occurrence, do your installation proposals include language that the system is not guaranteed to work when it is cold outside? This seems like something the potential customer should be made aware of.

I have also read many people suggest that using a consumer grade CRM would be a better alternative. This alternative approach has not been discussed by the committee to my knowledge, but I don’t see it getting very far without some further discussion regarding this question: What are the chances that the radon levels are going to rise in the home to the point where the CRM is going to start beeping in a home with a known radon problem and a non-functioning mitigation system during a time period when the stack effect is the greatest? A system alarm would allow the homeowner (and mitigator) to act before the radon levels become elevated. If you wait until the CRM goes off, the radon levels are already elevated, and you are past the point where action should be taken.

What am I missing? It seems like some of you are against alarms because you do not want to admit the system you installed is not protective all the time and you do not want to address or change it. The comments I read seem to be centered around minimizing calls from past clients, not maximizing radon reduction. If this is not the case, you should not be fighting against alarms, you should be advocating for better system design and installation requirements.

This thread is a good time, I think, to call attention to the fact that the process by which ANSI-AARST standards are developed — Kevin M Stewart

"As usual, @Kevin M Stewart is correct."

Great job guys! Mike is a well respected leader in the home remodeling industry. I have always enjoyed how his show stressed the need for due diligence when purchasing as well as what can go wrong when you hire a shady contractor.

Tony McDonald

I have seen this setup used to install soil gas monitoring points in the past. You can rent these kits as well as buy them. They were drilling to 12' in a soft silty sand and the large rotohammer was giving them a real work out. 12' is a really long way to drill, especially in clay. The power required to turn the mass of the drill bit itself becomes significant. I have had professional drillers try to talk me out of going 12' in clay with a portable 420M Geoprobe.. I would prefer an extraction trench if possible.

My presentation at the AARST conference last year covered rotary hammers. You can view the slides here.

We have owned every brand and they all work well, but DeWalt is the only brand that has an ergonomic handle which allows you to stand upright while drilling floors and hold the drill safely with both hands. You can also mount the handle in a more traditional way when coring horizontally. This cuts down on user fatigue and workmans' comp claims. Save your back, and your employees' backs as well, by buying a DeWalt!